NJS4E: How did he change?

He was more approachable, more reachable and more compassionate before but once he started making connections with Suge Knight and going in the Death Row direction, he started becoming a different person. And as Da Bassment started disbanding and once he started seeing the betrayal taking place within the Bassment family, I think that was a lot for him to deal with emotionally and mentally and he just became someone else completely. It wasn’t really DeVante.

NJS4E: You mention Suge Knight- It was rumoured that he actually became DeVante & Jodeci’s manager at a time when DeVante was increasingly unhappy with the way Uptown Records was treating him & his band. From your knowledge, was this true?

I came in on the tail end of that situation with Uptown- when everything was looking sweet for DeVante & Jodeci. By the time I joined, I’m not sure if Suge was actually their manager as such, but Suge had already reached out to Uptown/MCA and let it be known he was in favour of DeVante & Jodeci and whatever they wanted to do. That ultimately meant Uptown couldn’t restrict DeVante in any way- in terms of the work he wanted to do, creative control over his group and Da Bassment, and that also meant a renegotiation of their contract in general. Suge let the label know he was standing behind DeVante and Jodeci 100%, supporting them and willing to put the muscle behind everything so they couldn’t be limited in any way. That was around the time when DeVante was entertaining the thought of leaving Uptown/MCA and signing with Interscope Records. It’s probably safe to say that The Show album was going to be the last album Jodeci did with MCA Records.

NJS4E: Do you think Suge wanted to sign DeVante, Jodeci & Da Bassment eventually to his own label, Death Row records?

Yeah that’s my understanding of it. Suge enlisted DeVante on a number of his projects on Death Row- he did a lot of production work for Suge. And you have to remember before Suge, aside from being the driving force behind Jodeci, DeVante was signed to Uptown Records as almost an independent artist himself- a producer on Uptown Records. At that time Suge was running the most successful hip-hop label- with the biggest hip hop artists signed under him. I think he wanted Death Row to be the biggest R&B label too. I’m fairly sure he had plans for DeVante to join the Death Row roster as a producer and bring Jodeci and Da Bassment with him too.

NJS4E: Do you think it was his affiliation with Suge during that time that changed him?

Yeah, I think so-it definitely played a part. It’s not Suge’s fault and I don’t believe the blame lies on him by any means. He was just an influence because he was the mentor figure at that time. But I guess the situation is really no different to what happened with 2Pac. I think DeVante just had to grow up fast in the industry and deal with a lot because he was so highly sought-after. In life you adapt and change depending on what you’re going through and who you have in your circle and that’s only natural. As with every human being in this world whose personality takes on different forms as they grow and experience both good and bad things, I think there were a few influences that brought about those changes in DeVante.

NJS4E: What do you think those were?

If I had one word to sum it up it would be the word hype. DeVante got caught up in the music industry hype and he like all young stars let that very same industry tell him who he was and dictate what his identity should be, based on his value as a producer and a song-writer- not his value as a person primarily. You have to remember he was very young when he first came out and where he’d come from prior to that was a very strict, conservative background. Almost overnight he went from obscurity to superstardom. That’s so much so fast at an age when he had not yet had the chance nor had the time to figure out who he was or what his true identity was, so like anyone would do in his shoes, he let the industry decide for him and he trusted that very same industry. He was Donald Degrate and then suddenly at 17/18 he was DeVante Swing, not Donald Degrate.

But DeVante Swing is not a real person. It’s an alter-ego identity for him as a producer. And that was the endless rollercoaster he got on when he was in his teens - the success and the money was just rolling in, he was a workaholic producing here, there and everywhere for everyone credible- I mean he was a genius!!, he had Jodeci to maintain, Da Bassment to develop which in itself was a huge financial responsibility, he had his God-given talents, he had ladies chasing him, men wanting to be him, labels wanting to hire him- everyone vying for his attention.

I don’t think DeVante ever wanted that kind of limelight though- I mean DeVante actually is a very private person and a homebody and it was always just about the music for him but because of the success and the royalty-like status he had to maintain, the rest came- the pressure and the dark side of the industry- and that’s a lot for a young man to carry on his shoulders when he is still growing as a person. I don’t think he was good at detecting who really had his best interests at heart as opposed to who had ulterior motives and were just interested in him for what he could do for them. And over time, naturally, when he saw the dark side of the industry, he changed to adapt to that, and stopped thinking with the same innocent mind and the same innocent spirit as when he first came on the scene. That’s why I say him changing is not the only reason and why I still maintain the split wasn’t his fault, just as much as it wasn’t anyone else’s.

NJS4E: So what was the atmosphere like after Ginuwine, Timbaland, Magoo & Playa had left? That must have been quite sad to accept for all of you, DeVante included.

Yeah. We were all together everyday for a number of years and we’d forged close friendships during that time- to suddenly get accustomed to certain members not being around and not being a part of the movement was strange to adapt to, and it was sad because we were missing members of a family. After Playa left the remaining people was myself, Mr Brendal, Sugah, Bazaar Royale & Reebok. The atmosphere I wouldn’t say was damaged fully or not working properly because there were still so much talent left and we were still working on the music in the same way as before- it was just eerie- like something was missing and although we did notice it, nobody talked about it because of the way DeVante handled it- it was as if nothing had happened at all.

And I think that’s what made it even stranger, because not only did we notice they were gone and no-ones talking about it, but we’re hearing them in heavy rotation in the radio and seeing them in heavy rotation on TV and almost having to pretend we haven’t seen or heard anything. But while we’re doing that we’re also fully aware that not only are they gone- but they’re actually doing what it is we all signed on to do together- and the music was the same kind of music from Da Bassment.

Personally it was bittersweet for me. Bitter because I felt that it should have been all of us doing it together as a family, because that’s what we were working toward before, but it was also sweet because I knew what they had gone through to get there and I was happy that it was really happening for them. All of them- Tim, Missy, Ginuwine, Playa- I really loved that they were doing what they were born to do- that their talents were being recognised and they were blowin’ up the way they deserved to. Tim put that Bassment beat on the map- and even though it wasn’t owned by Da Bassment collectively anymore, I was proud of them.

NJS4E: How about DeVante? Mentoring & developing artists over years, experiencing disloyalty and then losing them to rivals and seeing them succeed without him must have been quite difficult to deal with, especially when it was his idea and one that he developed creatively. How did he deal with it all?

I think DeVante was hurt because they weren’t with him. But at the time he never let on with anything. He just wanted to forget the whole thing so much. I think he internalised it all and didn’t say much about it to us because he was still our mentor and he probably felt he had to appear strong for all of us so that we didn’t lose our momentum and possibly think of leaving him also. I’m sure that was playing on his mind too. I think he just stayed strong for the rest of us- he just never showed any weakness. I do think because he blocked it out and didn’t deal with it properly at the time, in the long-run he suffered more from it though- I think he never got over the pain of going through that experience.

I can only imagine it must have been a lot for anyone to accept easily. To have lost a lot of what he had pioneered musically as well as the relationships he had with people, and after he had shouldered a massive financial responsibility when he took Da Bassment under his wings- he had no return on that emotional and financial investment. I think after doing all that and going through the aftermath of it all, he never trusted anyone the same way again because not only was it damaging emotionally, but mentally he was always in great fear that it would happen to him again. And that’s why by the time the second wave of Bassment members came through he just wasn’t the same way with it.

NJS4E: That whole timeframe when people started leaving seems to coincide with the time when the public started hearing less of DeVante on the production & writing side- with his own group and with other artists. There hasn’t been a Jodeci album since 1995 and of course the public never did see any of Da Bassment material released through DeVante, either for the original Bassment artists and/or the second wave of artists?

I think after people started leaving, DeVante definitely lost a lot of motivation and that was the beginning of the end for the reasons I’ve already stated. It’s sorta like a basketball team that has a strong nucleus, that are prepped to be undefeated and win all these championships, but then slowly but surely some of your star players choose to be traded to another team. Quite naturally you’re going to be grateful for the other players that you have, but you also know that it’s going to be so much harder to create the same kind of momentum and maintain that. When the split happened it was a devastating blow to his ego, his confidence, his pride and his mindset in thinking that he still had something as great a value as the original team he had. The desire to make it work and the desire for it to be a priority just wasn’t there in both his head and his heart anymore.

And that’s understandable because Da Bassment had already been riddled with so many difficulties- it would have been hard for anyone to accept, get over all the damage and then give it another chance with the equal dedication he had at the beginning. I most definitely would have found it too difficult. Personally for me, when the new members came on board I’d have to agree the atmosphere wasn’t the same at all. There just wasn’t the same connection and there was always that internal jealousy- the newer artists were kinda jealous of the relationships that the original artists had with DeVante. DeVante himself was in a different place at that time-where the same compassion and affection just wasn’t there. Despite all that we still worked hard and recorded material but we didn’t manage to have any material released.

NJS4E: That would explain the Jodeci album as well as Da Bassment material being on hold for 14 years now.

Yeah, I mean, I think he had just become de-motivated and disillusioned by all his experiences that the energy was gone for that too. He wasn’t the same DeVante that stepped into the industry- the hungry and passionate young man that was excited about his career in music and had a lot to achieve. He’d already broken records and won awards, he’d reached his peak at the time and had been praised for his talent and his achievements, but when he was going to unleash Da Bassment he’d experienced the harsh reality of what the industry and people can be like- he was too young to be prepared for that and because he was so young he was inexperienced to even deal with it properly. And he had to climb up from that, when there were now higher goals to reach and bigger records to break, because he was DeVante Swing and he was one of the greatest producers in the industry and that’s what he’s always been known for. That’s a lot of pressure on him- that’s a lot of pressure on anyone, let alone someone in the public eye- someone who was an icon.

I think he was going through a lot of things and needed some time to himself, before he could concentrate on putting out an LP for Jodeci or for Da Bassment. You have to remember he’s also the type of guy that would never release anything unless he felt it was over and beyond his own high expectations of what his music should be- what you and I deem as perfect is very different to DeVante’s view of perfect. He was driven by complete perfection. I think he needed time out to sort a lot out before he could reclaim his top spot again. I think he tried to do that with the second wave of Bassment artists too soon when his head and heart wasn’t there yet and that’s probably why nothing was really released.

NJS4E: Can you tell me a bit more about the second wave of Bassment members?

It must have been around ‘96 when the new wave of Bassment artists came on board. I don’t remember all of them because by that point I was in doubts about whether I was going to continue with DeVante. But there was Black’n’wild who were from Rochester, Pretty Boy Floyd who was from NY, Protégé, Jah, LB and a set of Twins. In fact the last encounter I had with DeVante I distinctly remember those twins being there. It was in New York and the twins were in the studio with him when I saw him for the last time face to face.

NJS4E: So when did you actually start having doubts about your future with Da Bassment and when did you actually end up leaving DeVante yourself?

I started having concerns about my future with Da Bassment in 1996. I actually ended up coming back to Rochester but then DeVante offered me a contract and asked me to go and live with Dalvin in Long Island. So in ‘96 I went and stayed with Dalvin in Long Island travelling back and forth from California recording music with him, and also just trying to see where DeVante’s head was at in actually getting the music out there and mobilising what it is we had set in motion. My concerns just kept growing because I could see that DeVante was not in the right frame of mind to get the music out. He also had people in his corner like the newer bassment artists that I didn’t trust. I’d already had minor run-ins with some of them because I think they were jealous of my relationship with DeVante. All of that just drove me to the point where I didn’t feel I could dedicate myself to it anymore and my mind was made up. Obviously I told Devante- it wasn’t a dramatic ending or anything. It was a conversation and we parted very amicably. That was the last time I physically saw him though. It was the beginning of 1997.

NJS4E: So did you ever talk to DeVante after that?

Yeah- he called me regularly to see how I was and ask me to come back after I left, but neither of us ever pursued it. But yeah we were cool with each other so we kept in touch over the phone but not in person again since I officially left Da Bassment.

NJS4E: What happened after that?

What ended up happening is that while I still rap and focus on my music, I became a Born Again Christian, which is just as big a passion for me now. And funny enough, it was DeVante that without realising changed me from an Athiest to a Christian. What happened was there was an incident that happened before I left the crew, between DeVante and the owner of Platinum Island (where we’d record music) who was an Athiest. This guy knew that DeVante was a preacher’s kid and he challenged DeVante theologically in a debate about religion and I kid you not, when we left the studio, DeVante had explained things so thoroughly it looked as if DeVante was a genius and the guy you’d expect to have the IQ of a genius was a dummy and the ignorant one, and me myself I wasn’t a professing Athiest but I was living like an Athiest, but he basically persuaded me as well. It was at that point that I’d made a decision in my heart that I wanted to learn about Jesus and the things of God. So when we left that room, I was still amazed by DeVante because my eyes too had opened to the idea of a higher being.

Once I came home after leaving the crew, over the course of time I’d enrolled into college, got my degree, I had an encounter with the Lord and had ended up giving my life to the Lord and becoming born again. And basically he called me one last time and I was excited so I told him about all that. And he said, "Man that’s good. I’m happy for you." And I never ever heard from him again after that.

He has crossed my mind all this time though. It’s not an out of sight out of mind thing. Y’know if I knew how to get hold of him I would because I’d love to be in touch with him again and know he’s doing good. I still have a lot of love and respect for that guy and nothing has changed there.

Special Feature: Da Bassment - Accion Pt. 5

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